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[rosalinecapulet]

Marketability aside, I think one reason we keep getting such a disproportionate amount of Batman media is because in general, and especially compared to Superman/Wonder Woman/Aquaman/etc, Batman’s mythos is very low-concept. Sure, occasionally you have some good old fashioned comic book nonsense like Poison Ivy or Ra’s al Ghul. But the most prominent villains-people like Joker, Riddler, Two-Face, Scarecrow, and Penguin-are basically just regular criminals with flashy outfits and elaborate ways of doing their crimes.

This is not to say that Batman is better than the other heroes, just a lot easier to adapt (especially for the Christopher Nolans of the world who want to do ~realistic~ comic book adaptations)

Comments

[woodland_goddess]

Actually, that makes so much sense....

[rosalinecapulet]

Yay, I successfully put something into words lol.

To their credit, DC is starting to get a bit more high-concept with the DCEU and Arrowverse, but yeah, when it comes to Batman they're still playing things very safe

[woodland_goddess]

Yup, I've noticed.

I'm way behind on Arrow though lmao

[rosalinecapulet]

tbh I've only seen the Music Meister crossover, everything else I know about the Arrowverse comes from tumblr dash osmosis xD

[woodland_goddess]

Ah, yes, the Tumblr Effect. I know it well.

I followed it for a while, and then it went downhill around the time a Jewish character was put in a gas chamber for cheap thrills.

[rosalinecapulet]

Yeaaah I can imagine that being a dealbreaker. It's things like this that make me glad the only DC show I follow is Gotham (which even then, I'm a couple seasons behind on).

[woodland_goddess]

I haven't watched Gotham yet. Been debating it though. Right now my DC obsession is Black Lightning on Netflix. Its so good omg

[rosalinecapulet]

I'll have to add it to my to-watch list xD

[woodland_goddess]

Doooooooooooo

[abirdie]

I think the trend of realistic and grounded (gritty?) superhero movies actually started with the X-Men film in 2000--after some previous, campy, mockable efforts, the folks at Fox were determined to make something that hewed closer to reality despite the crazy weather powers, shapeshifting, etc. The Dark Knight was in that vein and dark, too. MCU doing things like animating a talking raccoon gave DC the nudge to go full comic-book-tilt, I think.

Having come fresh off of Aquaman, I agree with you that the other DC franchises are much tougher to adapt! Honestly, I'm amazed that they managed to pull off the kinds of stuff they did in live action. It's just hard to make things like underwater fights /not/ look cheesy when you move away from drawings.

With that said--me being biased as a big Bat(fam) fan here--there is a kind of universality to Batman as one of the nonpowered heroes, someone who wasn't born special (besides the $$$) and fitting into a quintessentially American mythos of the self-made hero. And dudebros will forever find him worryingly relatable.

[rosalinecapulet]

Yeah, X-Men is definitely the most obvious predecessor here (even then, I would argue that Blade got there first, but X-Men is the first one in terms of "people knew it was a comic book to begin with", while people tend to think of Blade as just another vampire action movie). And then there's Daredevil (and, to a less remembered extent, Elektra). My point is less that Batman started the dark ~realistic~ superhero thing and more that the ease of slotting him into that kind of movie compared to other superheroes is the likely reason that we've had five major live-action Batman iterations (depending on how one measures the clusterfuck of inconsistent casting and direction that was the Burton/Schumacher films) while most others can only claim one or two.

I also agree that seeing what MCU got away with is the main reason DC decided to start getting a little weirder (coupled with the lukewarm reception of The Dark Knight Rises, which granted could never have met the expectations of its predecessor). I haven't seen Aquaman yet, but I'm still amazed it even exists given his reputation, especially given the points you brought up.

And I'm also with you on the "self-made hero" thing, which is usually brought up by the dudebros in question (ex. the "Batman is better than Superman because he does everything by himself without sidekicks or powers" speech I had to endure in my intro to communications class last year)

tldr you're basically right on all those points and I wish I wasn't still fuzzy brained from illness recovery so I could express it better

[abirdie]

No worries! I hope you feel better soon.

Sorry, I hope you didn't take that first part as me snarkily correcting you, that was more some thinking out loud about the whole "realistic" thing. Because really--who decided that "realistic" paired well with "superheroes"?

I totally forgot about Daredevil, oh my god. Daredevil and Green Lantern are the Superhero Films That Must Not Be Named from everything I've heard about them.

Did dudebros in your class seriously say that Batman does things without sidekicks?? Um. Honestly, I find Batman as a standalone hero completely boring. I would only be mildly interested in Batman if not for all the Robins and Batgirls. And they add so much richness to his story and are really the only way he can move on and move forward. Also, Superman...doesn't have sidekicks? He has buddies and there's a Superfam, but he's not their mentor or partner like Batman and Robin are. Dudebros say the damndest things, huh.

And speaking of dudebros, there was this group of guys in the theater today that laughed at literally anything in Aquaman? But like. In a mean way. Whatever, your spite watch is all green dollar bills to the people who made the movie.

[rosalinecapulet]

Thanks <3

No worries, I just wanted to make it clear that I wasn't a pretentious Nolan fan getting up on their high horse and saying we have him to thank for superhero movies. Which is especially funny given that most post-TDK superhero movies seem to be in agreement that the best way is to be as far from realistic as possible (the only real exception of note is Man of Steel, but even that doesn't really count because it's also partly a Nolan film).

Honestly I think Daredevil is an important movie to have around because it reminds us of what happens when you try too hard. And imo it's still not nearly as cursed as Catwoman.

Yeah, it was clearly a guy who had only seen the Nolan films, and he also seemed to preemptively turn his nose up at Superman for the usual "he's overpowered and everything is too easy for him" nonsense. Meanwhile, I'm nominally a Batman fan but I can easily get tired of Bruce and I'm glad the Batfam are there to dilute some of the angst (and also to give us my favorite mode of Bruce characterization, Batdad). And I'm also here because there are so many Batrogues I love (though aside from Joker, Harley, Ivy, and Selina, all the ones I love seem to be increasingly phased out of the newer comics) but that's a whole other tangent.

I wish I could say I'm surprised, but I knew it would happen given Aquaman's reputation. Ah well, the numbers speak for themselves on who wins this battle.